Re: 政治能問嗎 - 文化差異

※ 引述《iambeetle (beetle)》之銘言：
: I assume that you prefer me to reply you in English, so I would it.
: 我假設你想要我用英文回復你，我可以。
: But I notice that there might be some people don't feel comfortable
: 但是我知道可能有一部分人不太適應讀一大篇英文，
: reading a whole brunch of English.
: Therefore I will make it into Chinese as well.
: 所以我也會把它翻譯稱中文， 這樣也比較清楚一點。
: Just for the sake of clearness.
: ------------------------
: At first, I was quite shock that how could you be so cocky and absolute.
: 剛開始，我很驚訝你為甚麼可以這麼自大和絕對化自己想法。
: However, I read it again and I think I know the reason why.
: 但是我又讀了一邊以後，我覺得我知道為甚麼了。
: You are either heavily brianwashed, or you knows basically nothing.
: 你要不然是完全被洗腦了，就是根本甚麼都不知道。
: I am not gonna argure with you based on hisotry, since I have said that
: history is not accurate.
: 我不會跟你理論歷史，因為我已經說過歷史其實本來就不準確。
: However, I would like to talk about it based on your logic.
: 但是我會將你的邏輯來討論。
: ※ 引述《lerudit (l'Erudit)》之銘言：
: : Are you going to talk about the history or the future?
: : It is not very difficult to clarify it.
: It's very hard to clarfy it, i would say.
: 其實，我會說，歷史是很難被認證的。
: Not only the history of P.R.China and Taiwan, but also the world history,
: has always been argued over decades.
: 不只是中國和台灣的歷史，就連世界歷史，這麼久以來一直被爭論著。
: I was surprised that it seems so easy to solve to you.
: 我很驚訝你會覺得對於歷史問題這麼容易就可以解決。
: Then what are those historians and professors doing for such a long time?
: slacking off? (lol)
: 如果是這樣，那麼這麼久以來，這麼多的歷史學家和教授都在做些甚麼？
: 偷懶嗎？ （笑）
: : In the past, for most of the time, Taiwan has been independently existant
: : in the world.
: : There were Dutch, Koxinga, Chin, Japanese and Chiang ever controlling Taiwan.
: : However, only the last two can fully control most of Taiwan.
: : (Remember, 2/3 of Taiwan is mountains. The first reliable sea level
: : determination was by Japanese.)
: : Chinese did build something in Taiwan, such as railway; however, at the same
: : time, they were removing railway off from their country.
: : Everybody knows Taiwan was ceded to Japan in 1895.
: : I don't like Chinese always arguing for price or bargain;
: : I don't like Chinese always leaving rubbish everywhere;
: : If you Chinese do want to buy something, pay for it or go away.
: : If you Chinese do decide to give up something, don't go to ask it back someday.
: : Else, don't give up then.
: : What do you think we Taiwanese are?
: Are you dissing Chinese people here? Where is your hatred from?
: 你現在是在針對中國百姓嗎？你對中國普通百姓的憎恨是怎麼來的？
: What is wrong with bargaining? That is a part of culture.
: 講價有甚麼不好的？這甚至是文化的一部分。
: And your stereotype is very bad. There are clean and beatiful cities in China.
: 你對中國的印象真的很差，雖然我不知道是哪裡來的。
: 中國也有很多漂亮而且干凈的城市。
我相信 但同時世界十大污染城市 中國也有七個
source: CNN
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/04/27/eyeonchina.
environment/index.html
當然你也可以懷疑CNN對中國的公正性
: If you want to talk about politics, don't blame people.
: 如果你是要講政府和政治，那就不要把怪罪到百姓人民身上。
: : Yes, the history has been interpreted very differently..
: : It is not difficult to clarify, else they won't be able to do any interpreting.
: : If you are talking about 'believe' or 'not believe', then we are at different
: : level.
: : I would talk about 'consideration', 'evidences' and 'research'.
: : I may still believe or not believe something, but would think of the reasons.
: Regarding to what you said above,
: 對於你上面所說的，
: I think you have made a big mistake here.
: 我覺得你犯了一個大錯誤。
: The fact that History can be interpreted doesn't mean that history
: can be interpreted correctly.
: 歷史可以被理解這事實並不代錶歷史一定可以被 正確 理解。
: The history itself is ambiguous, if you force to interprete it one-way only,
: there must be bias inyour interpretation.
: 歷史本來就是很多面化和很模糊（不好意思我真的不知道怎麼翻譯ambiguous)
: ，如果你硬是要單一化的理解歷史，那你的理解一定會有偏見。
: And I don't understand that you said you would talk about "considerations",
: "evidance" and "research", because you have not.
: 我不明白你為甚麼說你會講"considerations", "evidance" 和 "research"，
: 因為很明顯你並沒有。
: And if you have done your research, I am sure that you won't get so cocky
: anymore. Because there are a lot of sides and bias in the source.
: It overwhelms you.
: 如果你有做研究的話，那我敢保證你不會再這麼自大。 因為當你在找資料的時候，
: 你會發現有很多不同的版本和偏見，立場。 你根本不能應付過來。
: : I suggest you just go away and talk to your president then.
: : If he agrees to give up to invade Taiwan or any attacks, we will not have
: : to buy any weapons from the US.
: : Mr Chinese, we are quite happily living here. If there is any difficulty,
: : that is basically by you, or your government.
: First of all, I don't like your words "invade" and "attacks",
: 首先，我很不喜歡你的字眼“侵略”和“攻擊”，
: because we have not invaded or attacked Taiwan.
: 因為我們並沒有“侵略”或“攻擊”台灣。
: The fact is we even suggest peace. Also, at least until now,
: we haven't started a war.
: 我們甚至提倡和平，並且到現在為之，我們並沒有發起戰爭。
拿著700顆飛彈對著人 然後說提倡和平
就像是拿著一把刀架在人家脖子上 然後說我沒要動手
同樣的問題你可以問問日本人或是南韓人
: But I would like to ask you one question.
: 但是我想問你一個問題，
: Althought Taiwan has bought weapons from the US, do you think those weapon
: can protect you? Are they even competitive?
: 就算台灣有跟美國買武器，你覺得它們真的有用嗎？真的能招架得住？
要戰台灣不會贏的 大家都清楚 台灣軍隊爛的很 但是不買
難道就讓解放軍直接開坦克進台北毫無招架之力?
讓700顆飛彈落在台灣 一顆也擋不下來
但是拿個比喻 你會因為世界盃要遇到巴西隊就不踢了 直接0-3任人宰割嗎?
: The US sells you weapons for money.
: As long as they gets money, they are happy doing it.
: 美國是為了賺錢才賣給你武器。 只要它們能轉到錢，它們就開心了。
: : No. If I ask a question:
: : Do you call 'my dearest' to every girl?
: : Then, do you think they will feel you are friendly if you do that?
: : Get your brain geared up, please, Mr Chinese.
: I don't think your example helps you.
: 我並不覺得你得例子有任何用處。
: It makes non-sense.
: 這個例子根本就不是在說同樣的東西， 事實上，這例子我根本不能理解。
: Do we call "my dearest" to every girl? No, we don't.
: 我們真的都叫女生“my dearest”嗎？根本不是。
: By the way, I have a name for you to call. No need to call me "Mr. Chinese"
: 順便說一下，我有名字，你不用一直叫我“Mr. Chinese”.
: : If you are governed by foreigner, such as japanese or whatever, I will accept
: : this excuse. Unfortunately, you are governed by Chinese government, which is
: : even called 'People's Government'.
: : Which government else is 'more of people' than yours?
: : You got many political parties meeting every year or every day in so grand
: : hall, and never heard they are arguing for anything. Everything agreed 99%.
: : How can we believe that everything is due to the government but not the people.
: : By the way, if you can take off the 'People' on the title, and go to argue
: : or protesst in your parliament, I will believe what you said. OK?
: : I am not laughing at you.
: : Democracy is a very good status, but you can not get it for free.
: : Do something for your own country, for your neighbour's sakes.
: Chinese people supports the government when it is doing the right thing.
: 中國人民在中國政府做正確的事情的時候，就支持中國政府。
我相信這點 但做不正確事情的時候 也似乎沒什麼辦法
: Till now, for the most of the part, Chinese government is helping the
: 到現在為之，中國政府的確在幫助中國發展，所以我們支持。
中國的經濟發展速度目前的確無庸置疑
: country to develop. Therefore we support it.
: Over 85% of people support the current goverment in China.
: 超過百分之85的人民支持自己的政府。
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^可以請問一下資料出處嗎 不會是新華社吧
: Chinese government fulfills Chinese people's demand.
: 中國政府的確實現了很多中國人民的目標。
: What about your government?
: If you are so happy about your government, answer the question.
: 如果你是這麼支持自己的政府，那你告訴我，
: What is the percentage that people support the curent govenment?
: 台灣現任政府民意指數多少？
很差 的確很差 不過做不好就靠選舉換人換黨 我想"政府" 跟"執政黨"可以是兩回事
人民對執政黨不滿 但是不代表想換"政府" 假如那是你的暗示
我不敢說台灣的民主舉機制成熟 但是他的確是相對下的可以被台灣人接受
另外回你的推文 台灣政府要洗腦台灣民眾 在以前的確是很容易 報禁黨禁都是
現在...? 媒體自由 言論自由已經是自由到不像話的地步了 至少台灣這邊
要接收世界各種資訊不會有限制 政府不敢在網路上設限 不會莫名其妙抓
所謂異議份子 你要統要獨 都可以發表自己意見 要用政府洗腦這個字眼
顯然還差的遠
: After all, I am not saying Chinese government always do the right thing.
: 但是，說到底，我並不是在說中國政府一直都是很正確的。
: There are evil sides of the government too. Just like any other government.
: 中國政府也有做一些不好的事情，就像所有國家的政府一樣。
: But I have a piece of advice for you.
: 但是我想要給你一個建議，
: Put down your pride. Stop being so cocky, you will learn more.
: 收起你的驕傲和自大心。 要是你謙虛一點，你可以學到更多東西。
看完您兩篇大作 第一篇感覺您還理性 至少就我認識的大陸人來說
看完這篇 又覺得很失望 因為你的說法 大概跟中國政府官方說法大同小異
沒什麼新意

在加拿大網路應該沒什麼限制 可以多看看台灣這邊的新聞 blog bbs
看看台灣人是怎麼想的 還有台灣人是不是真的天真地被政府洗腦


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